is there anyway to make filters not step from knobs?

The Dave Smith Instruments Prophet-12 Analogue Synthesizer

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Flux302
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is there anyway to make filters not step from knobs?

Post by Flux302 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:27 pm

Just wondering if there is a way to get smooth slow high resonance filter sweeps from the knobs without the midi stepping sound. is there a higher resolution mode? reading the NRPN value amount I am doubting it...
Ken Flux Pierce
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zeeb8
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Re: is there anyway to make filters not step from knobs?

Post by zeeb8 » Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:37 pm

Hi Ken,

Hopefully this answers your question - in the SOS review of the P12 they mentioned: "When I reviewed the Prophet 08, I suggested that DSI had been right to omit high-pass filtering from its specification because this might make the synth a little less Prophet-y than it would otherwise be. And, as I experimented with the dual low-pass modes on the Prophet 12 and learned how to invoke things such as variable Q and self-oscillation in the HPF, it began to generate sounds that could never be coaxed from its predecessors. Nonetheless, it didn't feel less of a Prophet, so maybe I was wrong. Just be aware that, given the limited number of programmable values for the filters' cutoff frequencies, you'll obtain steps if you sweep them manually, whereas sweeping them using contour generators and other modulators will generate the smoother changes that one would hope."

So I take it doing the sweeps using contour generators or other modulators will smooth out the steps. (my next question, what is a contour generator or other modulator like that) Anyway hopefully that covers your question.

NewsFromTheSky
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Re: is there anyway to make filters not step from knobs?

Post by NewsFromTheSky » Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:52 pm

"Contour generator" = Olde English for envelope generator, ie you can use internal modulators like envelopes and LFOs.

The Virus has (since early on) a feature (Adaptive Control Smoothing) for smoothing knob movements; I'm surprised to hear the P12 doesn't do the same thing. There was some fuss about the Pro6 cutoff knob doing some interpolation, maybe the algorithm for matching the amount of smoothing to the speed of knob turning (the "adaptive" part) still needs some tweaking.

Flux302
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Re: is there anyway to make filters not step from knobs?

Post by Flux302 » Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:54 am

Unfortunately this is another weak point of the prophet. I'll admit I am surprised by this. It's clearly a result of low resolution control... Oh well , doesn't mean the prophet is useless but it sure doesn't speak of the sort of quality one should expect from a flagship... This day and age no filter should step from manually control unless you force it to.
Ken Flux Pierce
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sapristico
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Re: is there anyway to make filters not step from knobs?

Post by sapristico » Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:24 pm

Fixed in O.S. version 2.0 maybe? Claim for it or die trying!

Martin3
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Re: is there anyway to make filters not step from knobs?

Post by Martin3 » Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:10 pm

Hi all,

please be aware of the tuned to note frequencies, this is not some oversight but a concept. If Keytracking is on 1 it will give you scaled resonance.

Hope this helps,

Martin2

kisielk
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Re: is there anyway to make filters not step from knobs?

Post by kisielk » Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:02 am

Is there stepping with the sliders and mod wheel? I would assume not since they are higher resolution than the knobs..

hannasdeli
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Re: is there anyway to make filters not step from knobs?

Post by hannasdeli » Sat Sep 26, 2015 8:21 am

Unless you are a trance-head obsessed with filter sweeps I really don't see how can anyone be stressed out by the behaviour of the P12 filter. I haven't noticed any really significative stepping and certainly nothing that made me stop making music or very analog-like sounds. You can disect all you want a synth and you will find flaws and bugs and problems, but really this is like a non issue to like 99,9% of musicians.

A different matter is the noticeable jump in the HPF, that is obviously something wrong in design or software and should be fixed.

Flux302
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Re: is there anyway to make filters not step from knobs?

Post by Flux302 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:42 pm

Let me just say how tiresome it is when I ask a question in here that has a weak point of a DSI product and I get replies like "It won't stop you from making music" or "the only need for that would be some absurd use case"... it's really rude and frankly shows a lack of thought into the issue.
The fact of the matter is yes I use High Q slow filter sweeps from the knobs on the hardware and often. for many reasons, some are sound design related some are melodic in nature, its not the point. The point was I was asking if there is a way to either A switch off the self oscillation/ filter tuning aspect of the knob with tracking on. or B) if it was something that could not be overcome without a update (lets be honest this could easily be solved with software slewing of the control knob but I fully recognize that some may want the stepping so it should be a setting in a menu).

For the record I did try it without any Keytracking and still no luck. its just a weak point in design. its not a deal breaker (though in my honest opinion one of the main reasons for using an analog filter in a synth vs a digital one is to avoid odd stepping artifacts that this digital control completely makes moot.) this is why Moog uses a 14 bit encoder set up on its sub series so that you don't noticeably hear that stepping (even though its actually there very very minimally).
people don't have to get bent out of shape I am not "stressed" its a problem I kind of expected would be there before I purchased.
Ken Flux Pierce
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hype1
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Re: is there anyway to make filters not step from knobs?

Post by hype1 » Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:38 pm

Oh man, this stepped filter behavior drives me crazy. I use a lot of resonance in combination with slow filter sweeps and the steps are very audible and intrusive and disrupting the pieces I create with it. The perfect polysynth with a major design flaw... Please DSI, give us the option to turn off stepped filtering!

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