URGENT!!!! Some digital sound leaking in my p12 patches.

The Dave Smith Instruments Prophet-12 Analogue Synthesizer

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Kermit
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URGENT!!!! Some digital sound leaking in my p12 patches.

Post by Kermit » Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:51 pm

Had my p12 for 2 days now and when programming some "Matrix 12 pad clones" i started
to hear a "very very hight pitched noise" leaking in the background.
I saw another thread here that covered a similar problem where the member "d.j.steve" wrote the
following:

Hallo, i have aliasing in the sound. is this about the digital osc or a damage mainboard? :roll:
some vst synth have aliasing in the sound, but a synth for 2600€ too !? :shock:
OS Ver. 1.1.1 will back send to my dealer with 30 day money back garantie! :idea:


I´m also on OS 1.1.1.
I tried to calibrate the filters and so on but without any luck.
This is unacceptable for a 2600€ synth.
Shall I send it back to Thomann or do you DSI fellas have any ideas on what to do?
The sound is in the 10-12kHz range and is extremely irritating.
It seems like it almost (I said almost) disappears when turning the master volume to its maximum.

Sampled the sound and enhanced it with an EQ if you wanna hear what I´m hearing.
Starting with full volume at first for about 5 sec. Then when I´m lowering the master volume you WILL hear it...unless
your ears are damaged and won´t hear above the 9kHz range.
Adding it to this post.

Please DSI give me an answer ASAP so that I know what to do.

/Kermit
Attachments
Prophet 12 10-12kHz noice.wav.zip
10-12kHz digital noice from my p12
(8.19 MiB) Downloaded 195 times

eisblau
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Re: URGENT!!!! Some digital sound leaking in my p12 patches.

Post by eisblau » Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:02 pm

Try to listen to a single, raw, unmodulated oscillator sound and press the SHOW Button. If the artifacts disappear, we have the same problem... it is audible on every waveform. If you turn off SHOW, the artifacts are here again. Seems like the knob values are irritating something inside. It really makes me wonder if the Prophet 12 Rack has the same issue?

eisblau
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Re: URGENT!!!! Some digital sound leaking in my p12 patches.

Post by eisblau » Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:22 pm

Haha wow, then the P12 module seems to have a better Sound with no artifacts :-)

Kermit
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Re: URGENT!!!! Some digital sound leaking in my p12 patches.

Post by Kermit » Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:58 am

Tried it!...but for me it´s there pressing the SHOW button or not.
I´ve mailed Mark at the support attaching waves, Pro Tools sessions and sysex files.

I really hope they´ll come up with a solution since I like the P12.

/J
eisblau wrote:Try to listen to a single, raw, unmodulated oscillator sound and press the SHOW Button. If the artifacts disappear, we have the same problem... it is audible on every waveform. If you turn off SHOW, the artifacts are here again. Seems like the knob values are irritating something inside. It really makes me wonder if the Prophet 12 Rack has the same issue?

eisblau
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Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:00 pm

Re: URGENT!!!! Some digital sound leaking in my p12 patches.

Post by eisblau » Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:39 am

Could still be we're talking about the same issue. I found out that when I press SHOW in Hold Mode, the digital noise is there but freezes at a ceratin value, so no "modulation" of the sound. When I turn SHOW off, the digital backrground processings interfere with the oscillator wave, resulting in a little phasing/drifting of the wave. Interesting is, this is only audible when the a key is pressed or it is on hold. Otherwise, I can not hear any background noise. And you have to go directly in your amp, a DAW filters this for some reason. I tried to record it on my laptop, but on the WAV recording, you can't hear it any more.


[quote="Kermit"]Tried it!...but for me it´s there pressing the SHOW button or not.
I´ve mailed Mark at the support attaching waves, Pro Tools sessions and sysex files.

I really hope they´ll come up with a solution since I like the P12.

/J

Kermit
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Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:41 pm

Re: URGENT!!!! Some digital sound leaking in my p12 patches.

Post by Kermit » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:10 am

Mmm could be!

At least I´ve recorded it "big time". Did you listened to the posted wavefile?

Sent the whole thing to Mark at DSI support. This is, at least for me, so important that it´s a matter of me keeping the p12 or sending it back. If you all P12 users download the p12 wav. example in this post and listen to it, I´m sure you´ll hear the damn thing in all your patches. Unless (and hopefully) it´s just my machine so that it´s fixable.

/Kermit

[quote="eisblau"]Could still be we're talking about the same issue. I found out that when I press SHOW in Hold Mode, the digital noise is there but freezes at a ceratin value, so no "modulation" of the sound. When I turn SHOW off, the digital backrground processings interfere with the oscillator wave, resulting in a little phasing/drifting of the wave. Interesting is, this is only audible when the a key is pressed or it is on hold. Otherwise, I can not hear any background noise. And you have to go directly in your amp, a DAW filters this for some reason. I tried to record it on my laptop, but on the WAV recording, you can't hear it any more.

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Fuseball
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Re: URGENT!!!! Some digital sound leaking in my p12 patches.

Post by Fuseball » Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:08 am

I get a spike at 11kHz but it's nowhere near as pronounced as yours, even if I boost the EQ around that frequency, and it doesn't appear to be affected by the volume pot.

As a closer comparison, could you post the same patch on here so we can try it out on ours? That might rule out whether it's something unique to your P12 a little better.
Prophet'08 PE #3591 | Tetr4 #2088 | MEK PE #1180 | Jupiter 6 | Juno 60 | Moog Sub Phatty | MS-20 mini | random digital stuff

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BobTheDog
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Re: URGENT!!!! Some digital sound leaking in my p12 patches.

Post by BobTheDog » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:11 am

The 11K peak on your Wav file is massive!

Mine is nothing like that, I think the idea of sharing the patch is good.

Kermit
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Re: URGENT!!!! Some digital sound leaking in my p12 patches.

Post by Kermit » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:59 am

Shure!

I´ll upload the patch tonight.

AND YES! Of course I´ve EQ boosted the problem in the posted wave, just so that everyone should be able to hear what I´m hearing in mine. It´s not by far that noticeable when not boosted. BUT!!....it´s so annoying that I can´t use my p12 anymore now that I´m aware of it.

And I think that a 2650€ synth should not have a 11kHz noticeable sound in every patch. :-)



BobTheDog wrote:The 11K peak on your Wav file is massive!

Mine is nothing like that, I think the idea of sharing the patch is good.

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BobTheDog
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Re: URGENT!!!! Some digital sound leaking in my p12 patches.

Post by BobTheDog » Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:56 am

Ah you boosted it!

If you use a "Basic Patch" from the globals menu patch and play a note, what is the db of the main harmonic peak, and the db of the 11k noise.

On my interface I get -20db for the main harmonic and -102db for the 11k peak. Mains hum is at -92db so my 11k peak is well below that.

So on mine it is not audible at all in normal use, some seem to be much worse, it would be interesting to see your figures.

RobbaSvenna
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Re: URGENT!!!! Some digital sound leaking in my p12 patches.

Post by RobbaSvenna » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:31 pm

Ok. This is insane.
I just received my P12. Plugged it in, and put on my headphones, and I died.
My P12 has the 11k-sound, and not in a subtle and barely noticeable way - it sounds like Kermits EQ-boosted wav-file!!
On for instance patch 4 "Kepler", the 11k-sound is louder than the "original sound", it's like a coating of loud high frequency buzzing.
Also the show button doesn't work, it just resets the values I wanna see and also makes the OLED-screen go haywire like it's got a computer virus straight out of a 80's-sci-fi-movie.

I'll upload a wav-file asap. This is crazy, and not acceptable.

Kermit
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Re: URGENT!!!! Some digital sound leaking in my p12 patches.

Post by Kermit » Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:52 pm

This is the Factory bank 1 preset 4 (Kepler) unboosted and analyzed with a crappy waves plugin. (mov file attached)

What if you were to multitrack the p12 and then add bus compression.

Awesome!!

This mother fkn frequency cuts thru your ear like a sharp knife thru melting butter even if it should be 80db lower
than everything else.

Hello DSI!!
Attachments
2014-08-03 22.40.45.mov.zip
(9.56 MiB) Downloaded 107 times

RobbaSvenna
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Re: URGENT!!!! Some digital sound leaking in my p12 patches.

Post by RobbaSvenna » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:27 pm

So here is a wav-file with the damn noise..
Like Kermit, I also chose the Kepler pad - but the noise is more or less just as audible on every single patch I browsed through.
There is no compression, no EQ-boosting, no nothing on this wav-file. Just the P12.

In the beginning of the recording I just turn the volume-knob up and down, then I play some notes, then I turn the drive-knob up and down.
Attachments
P12 Kepler 11kHz noise RobbaSvenna.zip
(10.92 MiB) Downloaded 119 times

Kermit
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Re: URGENT!!!! Some digital sound leaking in my p12 patches.

Post by Kermit » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:32 pm

The best synth so far..........except for one ANNOYING LITTLE thing that makes it unusable.

Please Dave S. HELP US!!

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Fuseball
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Re: URGENT!!!! Some digital sound leaking in my p12 patches.

Post by Fuseball » Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:22 pm

My 45 year-old hearing craps out around 12kHz but I can hear the 11kHz noise if I boost it a bit. It doesn't help that it's pretty much the same frequency as the tinnitus I get sometimes. I can imagine that if your hearing isn't so heavily attenuated around that frequency then that spike is going to be clearly audible on many patches.

I get similar readings to BobTheDog from the "Basic Patch", so it's weird that some patches like Kepler have a far more pronounced spike.

I remember folks on here mentioning the 11kHz spike a while back but I think you're the first people to have reported it as an audible problem. Either you both have better hearing than the rest of us (quite possible and something you should be thankful for) or there's something amiss with your P12 which is making the spike more audible.

Even though I've been largely unable to hear it in normal operation, it has troubled me and I've often wondered if it would be a problem for others.
Prophet'08 PE #3591 | Tetr4 #2088 | MEK PE #1180 | Jupiter 6 | Juno 60 | Moog Sub Phatty | MS-20 mini | random digital stuff

amstat
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Re: URGENT!!!! Some digital sound leaking in my p12 patches.

Post by amstat » Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:44 am

Sounds like some folks received a faulty unit. I've never experienced this phenomena on my P12 K. Strange.
Prophet 12, Tempest, Juno 106, Eventide Space

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BobTheDog
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Re: URGENT!!!! Some digital sound leaking in my p12 patches.

Post by BobTheDog » Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:09 am

RobbaSvenna wrote:So here is a wav-file with the damn noise..
Like Kermit, I also chose the Kepler pad - but the noise is more or less just as audible on every single patch I browsed through.
There is no compression, no EQ-boosting, no nothing on this wav-file. Just the P12.

In the beginning of the recording I just turn the volume-knob up and down, then I play some notes, then I turn the drive-knob up and down.

I just tested Kepler on mine.

With your wav file the difference between the highest audio and the 11K peak is 73db, on mine it is 86db so 13db difference.

So it is pretty audible on yours and not really at all on mine.

Kermit
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Re: URGENT!!!! Some digital sound leaking in my p12 patches.

Post by Kermit » Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:35 am

Hmm so it could be a batch of faulty motherboards that have been shipped?!?

Anyway......like I wrote in a previous post, what if you were to multitrack your p12 then. Use it like most people probably would like to use a synth in a studio. Then the 13db difference wouldn´t matter at all. Everyone listening to that mix would probably get headache or tinnitus in 4 minutes. :-)

DSI we need you.


BobTheDog wrote: I just tested Kepler on mine.

With your wav file the difference between the highest audio and the 11K peak is 73db, on mine it is 86db so 13db difference.

So it is pretty audible on yours and not really at all on mine.

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BobTheDog
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Re: URGENT!!!! Some digital sound leaking in my p12 patches.

Post by BobTheDog » Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:45 am

Some seem worse than other from what I can see from posts on this forum, the modules also seem better than the keyboards.

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silvain
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Re: URGENT!!!! Some digital sound leaking in my p12 patches.

Post by silvain » Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:07 am

Hey Kermit and RobbaSvenna,
this forum is not run by DSI. Again a big thanks to our obscure and very quiet host!
Pym - developer for DSI - tries to keep up with bugs announced here. But if you find such things, best e-mail the support on davesmithinstruments.com and tell them. As we've seen they are good about replacing faulty hardware.

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