Feature request: more Unison modes.

The Dave Smith Instruments Prophet-12 Analogue Synthesizer

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BobTheDog
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Re: Feature request: more Unison modes.

Post by BobTheDog » Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:05 pm

sapristico wrote:Reading some of you is like reading Milton Friedmans bible integrists,...stop questioning, pointing problems and solutions, and just shut up, obbey or accomplish with your consumer role and thats all. Everything works! Dont cry, just produce...there are worse things, worse scenarios, worse systems, worse products ...everything is gonna be OK...some day for some of us.

Earning 3000 for me requires a looooooooot of effort and sweat...so, please, tell that bull@#it to my hand.

Pointing the clear deficits and lacks in the design of some quite expensive and flagship too soon products, against some suspicious and especulative commercial policies...with the potencial problems in terms of quality, or the simple corrections, improvements, or additional functions that compense or justify such price with "simple" modifications (as a simple intention declaim) investment and products/brand confidence, even in the obvious imperfection assumption...is not MOANING. It is claiming for your, our rights at least as consumer...it is pointing the necessary compromise of any supplier or manufacturer in any bussiness context, and even more in this. Ask Oberheim...

It's simple. In April 2015 it is not unreal or insidious expecting some direct communication and compromise regarding this continuous and engaged development of this kind and lines of products, this direct flow of information, potential solutions, help needed...precisely here!

But, you know...the plugin outsourced for 99, the kit for knobs replacement in the past, hoodod bunch of bucks, the unconsistent price/features policy for different complementary "flagships"...

Just don't pee on me and keep telling me its raining...
All I can say is thank God you didn't design it.

creativespiral
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Re: Feature request: more Unison modes.

Post by creativespiral » Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:15 am

I can see this from both sides:
As a P12 and PEK user, I would love to see further developments to improve both synths even more (they are both awesome already, but I'd love to see some of the additional wish-list functions and features that have been mentioned over the past couple years) At the same time, as a programmer myself, I understand that programming is not free -- and re-programming or extending functionality after initial development can often open a can of worms and take longer than expected to create a stable build... all of the dependencies and relationships have to be checked and debugged. For DSI to just keep building out features will require resources and they are a small business with a limited team.

How about for each "New Feature Upgrade" request, set up a kickstarter campaign.

For example:
New Unison modes development for P12 needs 100 pledges of $50 each == $5000

New Wavetable development for P12 needs 150 pledges of $40 each == $6000

New COMBO mode development for Poly Evolver needs 100 pledges of $80 each == $8000

Just examples above, but the idea being, that the P12 community could put their money where there mouth is to subsidize further development of existing instruments. The "minimal time required" cost would be covered by the kickstarter. If its gonna take a minimum of two weeks of programmer/development time, and they can raise $5000 from the community, maybe that's a win/win for the community and DSI. Those who have pledged their $50 or whatever get the new feature they want, and DSI adds the new feature into future updates either for free, or even at a nominal charge to users who didn't participate in the pre-development pledge. Could lead to further direct $$ for feature upgrade purchases for DSI, or just further increase buzz for existing products and extend product sales cycles.

I would gladly pitch in for many new features that have been mentioned for both the P12 and PEK.. and if there's thousands of other users out there, maybe they would be willing as well.

It doesn't seem at all unreasonable to me if DSI (or other companies for that matter) as for subsidizing further development of features for existing products that are essentially finished.

Any comments if this would be a feasible situation? DSI/Dave/Chris/Carson? Others?

The way I would imagine it... DSI puts up kickstarter campaigns for dozen or so "New Feature Developments" for P12/PEK/Tempest that have been requested over and over.... with a couple paragraphs of what the "minimal functionality" will look like (while still giving you license to make changes to the implementation as needed during development... or expand upon if opportunity arises)... DSI emails existing clients about New Feature Development kickstarter campaigns.

DSI try to cover minimal cost/resources for the weeks of development estimated for that functionality... if DSI needs $5k or $10k or even $20k to make sure costs are covered for a specific feature development, that's fine... just come up with an amount of pledges and cost per pledge to get to that amount.

Then its up to the community to put their money where their mouths are if we want new features added. To me, spending a couple hundred more dollars would be an easy decision if it meant adding some new functions to my PEK and/or P12. If there's a hundred others out there like me, maybe some new stuff can be added??

- Jason
PEK + P12 + Fantom G8
PEK / P12 User

pelican
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Re: Feature request: more Unison modes.

Post by pelican » Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:48 am

Sure, I would pay money for updates, but don't overlook the fact that the more features they add the more units they would sell over time. The point being it helps them to dedicate the extra time also

noirext
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Re: Feature request: more Unison modes.

Post by noirext » Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:43 pm

BobTheDog wrote:
sapristico wrote:Reading some of you is like reading Milton Friedmans bible integrists,...stop questioning, pointing problems and solutions, and just shut up, obbey or accomplish with your consumer role and thats all. Everything works! Dont cry, just produce...there are worse things, worse scenarios, worse systems, worse products ...everything is gonna be OK...some day for some of us.

Earning 3000 for me requires a looooooooot of effort and sweat...so, please, tell that bull@#it to my hand.

Pointing the clear deficits and lacks in the design of some quite expensive and flagship too soon products, against some suspicious and especulative commercial policies...with the potencial problems in terms of quality, or the simple corrections, improvements, or additional functions that compense or justify such price with "simple" modifications (as a simple intention declaim) investment and products/brand confidence, even in the obvious imperfection assumption...is not MOANING. It is claiming for your, our rights at least as consumer...it is pointing the necessary compromise of any supplier or manufacturer in any bussiness context, and even more in this. Ask Oberheim...

It's simple. In April 2015 it is not unreal or insidious expecting some direct communication and compromise regarding this continuous and engaged development of this kind and lines of products, this direct flow of information, potential solutions, help needed...precisely here!

But, you know...the plugin outsourced for 99, the kit for knobs replacement in the past, hoodod bunch of bucks, the unconsistent price/features policy for different complementary "flagships"...

Just don't pee on me and keep telling me its raining...
All I can say is thank God you didn't design it.
You, good sir, just won the thread.

sapristico
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:38 pm

Re: Feature request: more Unison modes.

Post by sapristico » Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:17 pm

noirext wrote:
BobTheDog wrote:
sapristico wrote:Reading some of you is like reading Milton Friedmans bible integrists,...stop questioning, pointing problems and solutions, and just shut up, obbey or accomplish with your consumer role and thats all. Everything works! Dont cry, just produce...there are worse things, worse scenarios, worse systems, worse products ...everything is gonna be OK...some day for some of us.

Earning 3000 for me requires a looooooooot of effort and sweat...so, please, tell that bull@#it to my hand.

Pointing the clear deficits and lacks in the design of some quite expensive and flagship too soon products, against some suspicious and especulative commercial policies...with the potencial problems in terms of quality, or the simple corrections, improvements, or additional functions that compense or justify such price with "simple" modifications (as a simple intention declaim) investment and products/brand confidence, even in the obvious imperfection assumption...is not MOANING. It is claiming for your, our rights at least as consumer...it is pointing the necessary compromise of any supplier or manufacturer in any bussiness context, and even more in this. Ask Oberheim...

It's simple. In April 2015 it is not unreal or insidious expecting some direct communication and compromise regarding this continuous and engaged development of this kind and lines of products, this direct flow of information, potential solutions, help needed...precisely here!

But, you know...the plugin outsourced for 99, the kit for knobs replacement in the past, hoodod bunch of bucks, the unconsistent price/features policy for different complementary "flagships"...

Just don't pee on me and keep telling me its raining...
All I can say is thank God you didn't design it.
You, good sir, just won the thread.
Let me know...intelligent people...which are your points regarding the content of my post and my "expected" and fortunately avoided capabilities for synth design??? Confusing wheat with chaff? only attacking in terms of economy ethics approach?? let me say...ha he hi ho hu.

For sure, If I would be the kind of people/company that designs and commercialize synths,...not the kind that buy them and claims for the necessary feedback and special interest in demonstration of coherence with the "flagship discourse" and product development and quality value maintenance ...I would be the kind of people in Elektron, Befaco, and others...(maybe DSI in the wquality features price tag of...Mopho 4?) or maybe at least I would give the VST option integrated in my flagship synth concept....that is FOR SURE, and you can give thanks to any god or your corresponding simulacrums. Consider also as a note for later, that similarities in many points of the O.S. and Mod structure designs...with differences from DCOs to DSPs and so...but with quite good parallell evolution.

That is me...I don't design synths...but I also don't speculate with them. I'm not here also to be the gravediggers ally, nor the hangman of a brand which "best" product I have bought.
Who are you?? Maybe very sensitive Milton Friedman's sect members?? Are you synth designers? In DSI unnoficial forum?

The kikckstarter ideas and philosophy can sound praiseworthy, but I'm sorry, take good care of the POV for what is usually in the "moaning" side, and these kind of solutions imply, and what we buy (as product or argument)...like it was paying for the kit of knobs in the past for PolyEvolvers...or for O.S. near obvious functionallities in the digital side of the synth at least??? Come on guys!! In other case it's simple...free it. Don't be Akai, for finishing being...AKAI...

To work a bit more on DSP OSC and waves (like triangle changes made only in OS? or the delays filtering? in comparison with functionallity of Pro2 OSC? With 6 voices part DSP power allowable to apply in some functions for the other part? is all of that impossible?) ????? More Unison modes?? OBVIOUS Mod destinations? ENV non linear curves?) Really impossible to develope without so much extra cost or hardware changes? Really??
Which, except economical, are your arguments against? I havent see any creditable detailed technical issue for every of those points and others.

Obviously I'm not talking about changing the meeeehhhdiocre (but "enough") filter design, that is impossible now...but please, stop bullshitting about that "inherent model" and polyphony needs with Curtis, huge costs and bla bla bla..., I'm not an expert but also not a fucking dumb. P6 is the demonstration for some good points...as the Pro2 filters and etc...and for implied costs (of development or components...), talk with my hand again.

We can talk about engineering costs per hour, development process, specifications, manufacturing in different contexts, countries and parts, mounting, and support...earnings and re-investment programs...I know a bit more about all of that...and...considering 3000 units sold at leats for the moment...it should be grossy 6M of Euros. I think considering direct and indirect costs of the little company (advantages or disadvantages?), and potential development, manufacturing, taxes, transport values...it yet sounds like a good deal-bussiness, with enough margin for at least changing 6-8 O.S. points, reupping the value of the product (that for sure is not rising up, except in huge less competitive price in Europe, for example). Just take for example now the hard comparison between Modal 001 (design, manufactured and made in UK) and Pro2...Yes, I know...the Modal 008 is on 5000 Eur, but, if it would (will) be near the 4000....maybe the comparisons against P6 and P12 would start to be...embarrassing.

Let the new "analog and hybrid polys" market revival grew up...and we will see. We are seeing it now, for example in the embarrasing price policy of Roland with a very interesting design however with JD-Xa...and that horrible cost collapsing design...Imagine the margins of Roland with that kind of product. The only future for the kind of companies like DSI is weighting very well the product value and client vouching.

Now...please...clap for whatever you want to clap, and let others ask for something more "justus for all".

Perfect synth does not exist, ok....but, come on. It's a taylor suit, I know, but, something a bit more fit?

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Tomavatars
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Re: Feature request: more Unison modes.

Post by Tomavatars » Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:24 am

Okay, so Dsi heard the people complaining, and as they heard them, instead of trying to implement some features in already existing synths, they just build some new synths with the new features...
As this one :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6onK30jYfo

Why can't you implement the number of voice chosen in unison mode on P12 but you can on P6 ?

Pym
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Re: Feature request: more Unison modes.

Post by Pym » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:41 pm

I have this working as of yesterday in the P12, it will be in the next update. You will be able to choose the amount of voices from 1-12 for a normal program and 1-6 for a split/stack program
Chris Hector
https://soundcloud.com/iampym
Dave Smith Instruments

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BobTheDog
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Re: Feature request: more Unison modes.

Post by BobTheDog » Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:31 am

Pym wrote:I have this working as of yesterday in the P12, it will be in the next update. You will be able to choose the amount of voices from 1-12 for a normal program and 1-6 for a split/stack program

Now that is good news, thanks for that :)

noirext
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Re: Feature request: more Unison modes.

Post by noirext » Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:38 am

In all honesty and after keeping up with all of your correspondence and commitment to these forums, I expected nothing less from you and the DSI team. I didn't even brace myself for disapointment.
Thank you so much for this.
Now, a couple of questions:
1. Is the issue of the preset patches with Unison going to be adressed and how? (hint: make them overwritable and let us deal with it :))
2. When is said update going to be released?

Again,...

sapristico
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Re: Feature request: more Unison modes.

Post by sapristico » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:19 am

Pym wrote:I have this working as of yesterday in the P12, it will be in the next update. You will be able to choose the amount of voices from 1-12 for a normal program and 1-6 for a split/stack program
YES!! It's simple...isn't it? These kind of news or at least your work-intentions, are gonna be quite well received in this area...THIS is the path. Maybe bit by bit, step by step...month by month...only stay in touch with us, and tell us about the possible or "impossible"...we will be a bit eager, expecting, maybe impatient or extra-beggar, but in the end, probably everyone will be thankful, even not achieving everything we'd like.

THANK YOU!! and keep on it.


PS: I would recover the first message on this page..."I sometimes think that Dave's insatiable appetite for designing and building the next exciting thing is DSI's worst enemy from a business perspective. :wink:

I dearly want to see all the instruments in the current range refreshed with OS overhauls where appropriate, and I'm pretty confident that DSI themselves want to see that too. There have been enough hints on here and other sites that a number of issues are in the process of being addressed on the Pro 2 and P12 at least. Perhaps it needs Dave to take a 6 month holiday so that Pym can get an uninterrupted run at them? :D"

Dave, spent some holidays in Europe (at least 3 months), and by the way you can check DSI Eu prices...Let your people work on this and that! We hope that after the P6 launching, the next months can be again for quality and added value improvements and OS updates...may DSI workforce be with us.

lt773
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Re: Feature request: more Unison modes.

Post by lt773 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 4:49 pm

Thanks pym!

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Tomavatars
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Re: Feature request: more Unison modes.

Post by Tomavatars » Fri Jun 12, 2015 5:58 pm

Pym wrote:I have this working as of yesterday in the P12, it will be in the next update. You will be able to choose the amount of voices from 1-12 for a normal program and 1-6 for a split/stack program
Oh Pym! I feel sorry about my bitter comment. Thanks you so much for this! At last you are still working on the P12, I was a bit afraid that you gave up on it.
Thanks again!

RobbaSvenna
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Re: Feature request: more Unison modes.

Post by RobbaSvenna » Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:16 am

Yes!!!! Great news, big thanks Pym! I'm really happy that the P12 will get some new OS-Luuuuv!

MatthewMontreal
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Re: Feature request: more Unison modes.

Post by MatthewMontreal » Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:58 pm

Old news now but I just discovered it after having given up checking for new updates. Anyway, as the original poster I just wanted to give some kudos to DSI for getting the voice-selecting option out. It's not quite the same as polyphonically using all 12 voices, but it's a def step in the right direction, and well appreciated.

Now for that polyphonic mode... :)

sapristico
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Re: Feature request: more Unison modes.

Post by sapristico » Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:00 am

Definetely not in 1.3 (surprise?)....the partial polyphony related with selectable Unison voices, I mean. My Ion from the 90s do that, quite simply and well.

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