Soundtower librarian problems

The Dave Smith Instruments Prophet-12 Analogue Synthesizer

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Scott Righteous
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Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:12 am

Soundtower librarian problems

Post by Scott Righteous » Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:38 am

I sent Soundtower an email outlining issues I had with their software. They didn't have answers, but assumed it was a connection problem, which it wasn't. They also mentioned that they have never heard of anyone having these problems, which is not true, because I emailed them when I had many of the same problems with the Evolver editor and Mopho editor.

I'm including my email here to see if others have the exact same issues I have, or if for some weird reason, they are exclusive to my set up. If you have these same problems, please let me know - hell let Soundtower know, as they always reply that they never hear of any problems with their software.

---------------------------
I am using a mac, OS 10.6.8 and my P12 is now version 1.0.3, but I had these issues with 1.0.0 as well.

1) If you try to save bank U4 from the editor to your computer, it saves bank U3. If you have bank U4 selected, and choose "save bank" it gives you a file named U3 - you can rename that U4, but it contains the patches from bank U3 not U4. I have screenshots of that included. Not being able to save bank U4 sure is annoying, and it used to happen on my Mopho editor as well as my old Evolver editor. This bug has been around a long time.

2) If you add say 30 patches to a library, and save that. Then add 30 more, save it, and then add say 20 more. You should have a giant library file. But when I load library files, an arbitrary number of patches are included. For example I had a library of 127 patches - saved it, but when I loaded it back up only 37 patches loaded. Why just 37 I don't know, but saving libraries of sounds has never worked for me - I don't get back what I saved, only 'some' of the patches.

3) when you have a bank of patches, and you sort them in alphabetical order, strange things happen. Choosing a patch may not choose the patch that matches the name - but the patch in the synth that 'would' have been in that position numerically. Keep sorting by alphabetical and patch names duplicate. I can get a patch name to appear hree times in my my alphabetical list, when the patch is only in the bank once. Sorting back to numerical order seems to fix this, but there is no way to reliably sort patches in alphabetical order, for example to see if a patch is in a bank twice.

There is a start. There are other issues that have happened to me with the P12 editor and the other DSI editors, but these issues are consistently reproducible. This product does not function as a basic librarian, it loses patches, and I have lost hours of work because of it.

Scott.

On 2014-03-14, at 12:07 AM, SoundTower wrote:

Soundtower
Customer Support
Hi Scott,
I'm sorry to hear about your trouble.
As a matter of fact we had tested the editor in many ways and it had also been tested at DSI. We have not experienced problems you are describing. I suppose the problem lies not within the editor but elsewhere. There are few possibilities - mainly setups and MIDI connections.
How is your Prophet 12 connected with the computer - direct USB or MIDI interface - if MIDI, what is the make and model?
Are you running it on a Windows PC or on Mac - what is OS level?
What is the OS level of your Prophet 12?
Please make sure that the following Global settings are set manually on the Prophet (not through the computer):
MIDI Controller enable: ON
MIDI Parameter Send: NRPN
MIDI Parameter Receive: NRPN
MIDI Sysex Enable: ON
MIDI Sysex Cable: USB or MIDI (depending on your connection)
MIDI Out Select: USB or MIDI (depending on your connection).

Scott Righteous
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:12 am

Re: Soundtower librarian problems

Post by Scott Righteous » Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:59 am

I've solved one mystery with the librarian.
Some patches will cause the library file save to fail at the point where that patch is in the list.

From the new factory library for example, patches U1-63 Money Square, and U3-58 OnlyOneOsc! will not save with the librarian, and if you have these in the middle of a huge list of patches, your list will only save up to the point where one of the patches crashes it.

I know there are other patches that do this, but have not figured them all out yet. It's a process of elimination.

Scott Righteous
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Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:12 am

Re: Soundtower librarian problems

Post by Scott Righteous » Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:19 am

That last mystery was not as simple as I had thought, - I had a library of 99 patches, saved it, reloaded it, it only loaded 42. I recreated it and eliminated the patches 40, 41, 42, and 43 - saved it, reloaded it and still it would only load the first 40 patches. So it doesn't always conk out on the patch that causes the problem, because I keep trying to eliminate the broken patches, and still can't get full libraries to save properly.

So I figured, don't save libraries. Just copy patches there to sort and then copy them back into banks, the banks save properly, except bank U4, you can't save that one, ever.

However this lead to another really annoying issue which is that when you copy a patch from the library to the bank, it asks you if you want to, you say yes, and sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. This became really problematic when I decided to load up all the old factory sounds I liked and all the new factory sounds - then sort alphabetically to see which were duplicates, and copy back just the newer versions, because all those newer factory presets sound better. I was trying to replace my old factory patches with the newer versions. Because the patch I was writing to had the same name as the patch being written, I didn't notice until later that many of these didn't in fact work at all.

All in all, I've spent about 5 hours tonight trying to find ways to organize my library of patches - how to keep the best ones, how to replace my favourite old ones with newer ones if they exist in the new library. The whole exercise was a total waste of time.

One thing I should point out, is that I don't even connect my P12 when doing all this patch management anymore, that just causes too many extra problems with sysex dumps. I'm just using the librarian to move, sort and create banks of patches. Midi is not causing any of my problems, because there is no need to connect the synth to sort banks of patches.

Anyway, I know I'm ranting now - just trying to see if anyone else has these problems. I'm kinda mad that DSI has not found a better third party developer for this software. It sucks the joy out of trying to organize patches, in a big way. I like the synth for workflow reasons, and the software is the antithesis of that.

stixman
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:47 pm

Re: Soundtower librarian problems

Post by stixman » Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:18 pm

Thanks for sharing the details of the problems your having with Soundtower!
I am dreading getting this software but there doesn't seem to be any other options seeing as I don't have an Ipad!
Where does DSI stand on this?

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Fuseball
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Re: Soundtower librarian problems

Post by Fuseball » Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:27 pm

stixman wrote:Thanks for sharing the details of the problems your having with Soundtower!
I am dreading getting this software but there doesn't seem to be any other options seeing as I don't have an Ipad!
Where does DSI stand on this?
Just curious - why do you need the software? I've been managing all my programs on the P12 itself, with occasional backups to the mac using SysEx Librarian. It's a little bit time-consuming but it works 100% reliably for me.

I wouldn't say no to a really solid OS X librarian but I'd rather work without one than struggle with Soundtower flakiness.
Prophet'08 PE #3591 | Tetr4 #2088 | MEK PE #1180 | Jupiter 6 | Juno 60 | Moog Sub Phatty | MS-20 mini | random digital stuff

Scott Righteous
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Re: Soundtower librarian problems

Post by Scott Righteous » Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:57 pm

I need a librarian program because I can't fit all the patches I want to sort and select in the synth at one time. For example, I have all the original factory banks - then the new factory banks, and all the banks found online. Using the software I (should be able to) sort out what patches are duplicates - erase all the first gen factory banks patches that were redone in the new factory banks. Stuff like that.

I save whole libraries to match what style of music I'm going to work on. So bank one might be bass and arps, bank 2 leads, bank 3 strings and pads. But I load up those three banks with different sounds if I'm working on dark ambient music, than if I'm working on synth pop, or other styles.

Doing what I do in the synth itself and keeping banks sorted by type of sound would take weeks of copy and pasting individual sounds from one list to another.

It's also not unreasonable in this day and age that a $3k synth come with a reliable patch librarian to enhance workflow. Because the P12 does not - it's a strike against it in my mind.

Oh how I miss the days of OS9 and using Sound Diver. Bring that back!

AlanC
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Re: Soundtower librarian problems

Post by AlanC » Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:36 pm

Just so you know:

In the Prophet 12 Module banks that were uploaded here, Bank B Patch 24 (which shows up as "Basic Program" on my keyboard) is corrupt - all the bytes in the sysex dump have the value 127. This might be causing problems for the Soundtower editor when it tries to extract the patch name.

Scott Righteous
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Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:12 am

Re: Soundtower librarian problems

Post by Scott Righteous » Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:25 am

Well, my emails to Soundtower outlining the various bugs have gotten a response. They have found the issue where saving bank U4 actually saves bank U3 instead, and there is supposed to be an update on the way. Hopefully other bugs will be addressed as well, but not being able to save bank U4 was a big annoyance to try to work around.

stixman
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:47 pm

Re: Soundtower librarian problems

Post by stixman » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:52 am

I am interested in the morphing feature plus it would be nice to have a reliable librarian to organise banks in genres like Scot Righteous suggests....
Fuseball wrote:
stixman wrote:Thanks for sharing the details of the problems your having with Soundtower!
I am dreading getting this software but there doesn't seem to be any other options seeing as I don't have an Ipad!
Where does DSI stand on this?
Just curious - why do you need the software? I've been managing all my programs on the P12 itself, with occasional backups to the mac using SysEx Librarian. It's a little bit time-consuming but it works 100% reliably for me.

I wouldn't say no to a really solid OS X librarian but I'd rather work without one than struggle with Soundtower flakiness.

duppyman
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Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:27 pm

Re: Soundtower librarian problems

Post by duppyman » Sat Jan 30, 2016 11:47 pm

This bank 4 not saving BS has just happened to me. Im livid with this software/company. It said I had successfully saved U4, 75 custom patches. 20 of which are in current projects with deadlines. Saved bank u3 instead. Trying to imagine how the F they can allow this to happen, especially at that cost. Is there some way to recover these patches im not thinking of? Unbelievable.

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WytchCrypt
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Re: Soundtower librarian problems

Post by WytchCrypt » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:38 am

duppyman wrote:This bank 4 not saving BS has just happened to me. Im livid with this software/company. It said I had successfully saved U4, 75 custom patches. 20 of which are in current projects with deadlines. Saved bank u3 instead. Trying to imagine how the F they can allow this to happen, especially at that cost. Is there some way to recover these patches im not thinking of? Unbelievable.
I tried the demo and it somehow overwrote all my factory presets with the "It's a Prophet" patch. Luckily I was able to restore everything with the reset globals command. After that I decided to pass on this editor even though I loved the idea of the patch morphing and random capabilities :cry:
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No such thing as free time.
No such thing as down time.
All you got is life time.
Go.
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sapristico
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Re: Soundtower librarian problems

Post by sapristico » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:31 pm

THE FACT is what it is.....regarding these plug/VST options for the DSI synths.

DSI as a company itself has a LOT of responsibility on this kind of lack of service and scope/quality for the supply by other company (with an, at least, questionable standard quality),...of the base functionality and support, much more compared with other synth companies...
Moog has appeared one year late, but both: apologizing for the delay, and providing an amazing VST (far beyond a preset librarian solution) plugin for the Sub37 (and DAW integration!!) in a synth half the price of a Prophet 12...

DSI, DO something!!!

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BoBSwanS
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Re: Soundtower librarian problems

Post by BoBSwanS » Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:57 pm

Never really had any major issues with the editor, I completed 100 patches for release and worked with bank U4 exclusively for over 12 months and created a few of the patches with the morph tools, during those 12 months i updated the software about 3 or 4 times and and tested the beta prophet OS but never really suffered as much as the rest of you.

Personally i think with the size of the team at DSI, they do not really have a choice other than to outsource these editors (unfortunate for some)

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giovio
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Re: Soundtower librarian problems

Post by giovio » Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:12 pm

I don't have any big issue with the sound tower librarian, a little bit more with the plugin se, but it has not been updated yet.

mekohler
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Re: Soundtower librarian problems

Post by mekohler » Sat Feb 27, 2016 12:58 am

I'm in 1.2.26 and editor 1.3.1 and the editor will not recognize the P12 via usb...it shows up in every other audio program. Any ideas?

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